Free Flow or Free Love?

[Mikey P]

What's your take on Nick Nellos' free flow design..


Anyone here other than Jay tried it?

 

[Curtis Pennington]

R you talking bout the wand bypass system?

 

[Dolly Llama]

R you talking bout the wand bypass system?

No, Curtis, "free flow" is a vac relief system that Nick uses.
It's nothing more than a permanent vac leak accomplished by drilling some holes in a cap

I've never used a FF system, so i can't say how effective it is or isn't.
Just in theory though, I don't think I like the idea and would much prefer a quality adjustable relief valve


..L.T.A.

 

[Scott Rogers]

I agree with Larry, I cant see how a fixed constant and consistant leak can work when air flow and lift are variable dependent on hose length and carpet/wand interface

 

[Farenheit251]

Talked to a local cleaner who has an improvement on the free flow concept. He put a ball valve on top of his tank and can dial in the amount of air he leaks for each job. That way he can close it up on poly or sculptured berber. The only problem I see is that you would need a helper to hold the wand on the carpet while you dial it in on each job-hard to be in 2 places at once.

 

[Doug Cox]

Aren't we talking about a few dollars at most to make a spring loaded relief valve. Is this a cost issue with Nick or what?

 

[Guest]

I guess it would be like running a blower @ 60%,not getting what you could out of it.

 

[Mikey P]

Aren't we talking about a few dollars at most to make a spring loaded relief valve. Is this a cost issue with Nick or what?

I'm positive that is how it began but he has some pretty thought out theories on it now.

I guess they sound reasonable enough to convince quite a few to give it a go.

 

[Jack May]

When Rob canned my 2.5 post over there, I sent him a PM telling him that my early 90's Aussie made Merzo TM came with a system like that already in place. Having now used 2.5 AND free flow, admittedly not on the same machine, there is NO WAY I'm going back.

To each their own I guess. Just like so many other mods in our industry, either you love em or hate em.

Unfortunately, some in this industry judge the performance and benefits of a certain mod by the association of the person developing or marketing it instead of on the merit or otherwise of the modificationitself in their application.

John

 

[Guest]

Unfortunately, some in this industry judge the performance and benefits of a certain mod by the association of the person developing or marketing it instead of on the merit or otherwise of the modificationitself in their application.

John[/quote]

Amen!

 

[Larry Cobb]

Mikey;

We did some testing at our shop with Jay's TM.

I do think a "controlled leak" free flow system IS better than most of the poor quality, leaky OEM vac relief valves.

A high-quality vac relief valve will outperform it, if set to the correct vac level.

Larry

 

[KevinD]

Nick built me a 38/56 a year and a half ago. It came with free flow and I have used it like that ever since.
Last week I put on a new Bayco Greenie sold me about two years ago.
I have not cleaned many jobs with the Bayco but the few I did, at the wand I could not tell any difference.
The only difference I do note is the RPM's are more constant and smoother with the free flow.
With the Bayco: bog,pop,hiss...bog,pop,hiss.
Am I getting better air flow with either? I don't know? With a 56 single wanding there is an abundance of unused air flow either way. My average residential hose run is 100'.
Cost of Bayco $ 200.00 +
Cost of Free Flow $ 5.00

 

[Guest]

so I guess it comes down to what you stand to gain as to which is better .

 

[Jack May]

No James, What it comes down to is what is best for ME, the cleaner in MY application.

The biggest problem for guys wondering what do go with is trying to sort out which supplier to trust and I can't help with that.

All I can say is I have run free flow on my old rig, and now I'm running 2.5 vac system on my Legend with a tightened down valve and I KNOW my results.

Hey it works for ME, might not work for the guy next to me, but that's why there's options.

The point I was trying to make, and this isn't about Greenie verses Nick this is about our industry as a WHOLE, it's degenerated to a Ford verses Holden(Aussie)/CHEVY thing. but it's worse than that, techs are being forced into one camp or the other and then close their mind to the possibility that there are other options that may just help them or be better in their application.

John

 

[Jay D]

Theres a picture of the "new" freeflow setup like BrianE is talking about on his "nickseztruckmounts.com" page.

 

[Guest]

wasnt calling you out John , was merely reasponding to Kevins post and the fact that he ( and I also ) have tried pricey valves that function no better than cheaper simpler alternatives. It makes you wonder if any real testing went into them at all before they were touted and introduced as higher performance valves .

Glad to see free flow works for you - it does make you wonder what Nicks motivation is to offer a cheaper viable option to vac control . In other words what does he stand to gain ??

 

[joey895]

For only $49 you can get a video from some other board showing you how to do it. :roll:

Of course you'll have to buy more video's to find out all the other modifications to improve performance.

 

[Guest]

Joey when you're ready let me know and I'll have Nick walk you through it - may cost ya a couple of bucks in materials .

 

[Dolly Llama]

it does make you wonder what Nicks motivation is to offer a cheaper viable option to vac control .?

cheap and easy to make is what i suspect.

I'm curious, Coop, do you or have you used a permanent air leak system?
Didn't you mention you have or had an Nick-o-matic?

what did you think of FF?
and are you using FF on your Vortex?

closest I've come to FF was a leaky waste tank gasket....


..L.T.A.

 

[joey895]

Joey when you're ready let me know and I'll have Nick walk you through it - may cost ya a couple of bucks in materials .

Thanks for the offer but I'll pass.

That was kind of my point though. It's been explained for free here and elsewhere (including Nicks board) a few times before already.

Now if I was building a homemade tm and couldn't afford a real relief valve I'd be all game for it.

 

[Mikey P]

$49 gets you a video showing how to drill holes in a galvy cap?


Keep drilling until you hit the desired hg right?

 

[Larry Cobb]

Mikey;

A picture showing Nick's latest implementation of the free flow:

A slightly open gate valve. At least, it is adjustable.
It does not fully relieve the blower if airflow is stopped.

Larry

 

[Guest]

I dont beleive the motivation is about money spent in as much as its about value - in other words the value and performance you get from a FF system is equal to or better than wasting 200 plus bucks on a kunkle or bayco .

Larry I never had an EZ , but I have seen one locally in action. As has been said before , instead of having a yo yo type vac effect with your relief valve , you get a constant flow set at a certain level - no up and down or any temporary loss of vac from a valve opening and closing.

 

[Mikey P]

is it really that hard to make a good looking truck mount?

 

[Guest]

Have you been to Nicks website ?? Do you remember me posting his tm pics across your board ?? For the money you spend , Nick provides his customers with a great value.

I'm sure Nick can build you anything you want and make it as pretty as you want it if your willing to spend the cash .

BTW , were you happy with the job that Jay did for your pop ( doesnt he use an EZ by Nick ????)

 

[Guest]

Did he let you give it a go while he was set up ??

 

[Mikey P]

I was not there James.

I dont live in Texas.


Jay made my Dad and Brother very happy.

 

[Guest]

Oh my bad , I thought you were visiting .

yeah , a good professional can clean with anything , but I seriously doubt a pro like Jay would use anything substandard. Too bad you weren't there to give it a whirl .

 

[Guest]

Now if I was building a homemade tm and couldn't afford a real relief valve I'd be all game for it.[/quote]

Just so you know,most trucks today still use a sprlng and disc,about 4 bucks at the hardware store,and drill some holes in the tank.Just an example.

 

[Dolly Llama]

I dont beleive the motivation is about money spent in as much as its about value - in other words the value and performance you get from a FF system is equal to or better than wasting 200 plus bucks on a kunkle or bayco .

Larry I never had an EZ , but I have seen one locally in action. As has been said before , instead of having a yo yo type vac effect with your relief valve , you get a constant flow set at a certain level - no up and down or any temporary loss of vac from a valve opening and closing.

I'm with you on the Kunkles and Baycos, Coop
i just flat out don't like them and prefer my "quality" spring relief they put on Powermatics.
It's the best valve I ever used and i found it to work BETTER than the bayco i tried for a day

where I might take issue with you is this statement concerning a permanent/fixed air leak;

"you get a constant flow set at a certain level - no up and down"

If all things were always the same and static, then yes.
But different length hose runs, or whether cleaning in a basement pulling solution up, or different carpet types causing more or less lift/airflow at the wand carpet interface all effect the amount of lift/airflow thru the fixed air leak.

You're sucking air from the get go with an air leak, which will delay reaching max HG
which as i see it, isn't the best thing for water/solution recovery

...................................................................................................................

Cobby, i thought you said you used stainless "blower silencers" on your TMs.
That looks like a plain ole car muffler end hanging out the front of that TM. :roll:
if i not mistaken, it doesn't look very stainless steel either

..L.T.A.