HD-30 oil? or 10-w30 oil? LES

[joeynbgky]

My Tm manufacturer says to use HD-30 oil.. My Honda engine owners manual says 10-w30..


Whats the difference? And what should I really use?

 

[Goomer]

Re: HD-30 oil? or 10-w30 oil?

I have seen this argument many times before without a conclusion. Check out bobistheoilguy.com forums if you really want to learn about motor oil. The 10w30 will flow better in extreme cold, and act similar to a straight 30 when it reaches operating temperature. Some guys say that if you are not going to experience very cold weather, go with the sae30, as it contains true 30 weight base oils, and that the 10w30 is actually a 10 weight oil, with heat activated thickeners to achieve the 30 wt rating when hot.
I do not state this as fact, it's just what I got out of many nights on the oil forum I mentioned.
Don't forget using anything other than the manufacturers recommended oil could cause you some warranty issues, and I would think the engine manufacturers recommendation would over-rule the t-mount manufacturer. I'm sure you can't go wrong with a quality 10w30.

 

[joeynbgky]

Re: HD-30 oil? or 10-w30 oil?

Thanks, Its just confusing. I bought an oil filter, fuel filter, air filter today it cost me 60 bucks. I still have to buy oil. I'm tired of paying $7.50 for a damn oil filter to.

 

[Goomer]

Re: HD-30 oil? or 10-w30 oil?

Not getting any cheaper, but try not to skimp on engine maintenance, it could easily mean a couple o' 1000 hours more on an engine.

 

[joeynbgky]

Re: HD-30 oil? or 10-w30 oil?

called my tm manufacturer today they said the hd oil is for extreme high temps which the unit gets up to, still confused.

 

[Goomer]

Here's how I think it goes.

10 weight thinner
30 weight thicker

A straight 30 weight (SAE 30) is just that, 100 percent 30 weight oil.
10w30 is a multiweight oil (10 and 30)
How can an oil be 2 different weights?
10w30 is actually a 10 weight oil. The w stands for winter (cold). In a cold area, 10 weight (thinner) oil will flow faster when it is cold. This is a benefit during cold start ups because it will flow and lubricate faster, yet this 10 weight is too thin for normal operating temps, so there are viscosity improvers added. which will thicken the oil as it is heated, in some applications, the best of both worlds.
Problem is, it's not really a true 30 weight, it is a 10 weight "acting" like a 30 weight.
Supposedly these viscosity improvers "shear", or break down under high temps, and thin out.
True 30 weight stays a 30 weight longer under higher temps because there are no additives to break down.
I think this is what you TM manufacturer is getting at.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub ... 509&page=1

 

[rwcarpet]

Re: HD-30 oil? or 10-w30 oil?

Thanks, Its just confusing. I bought an oil filter, fuel filter, air filter today it cost me 60 bucks. I still have to buy oil. I'm tired of paying $7.50 for a damn oil filter to.

I buy my oil and filter (both changed every 50 hours) at Advance Auto. Every month they put different oils on sale. I can get 5 qts. and a filter for about $16.00. I stock up on Pennsoil 30 weight when it's on sale. My Genesis runs best on Pennsoil.

 

[Shawn Forsythe]

I've never seen an engine with just one specification for the oil used. Usually they give a chart or table that indicates desirable oil viscosity that depend on the conditions for which it is operated. Often there are even overlaps, where two engine oil viscosity choices must be evaluated on which best fits one of the two scenarios.

However, the engine manufacturer does not have the benefit of actually determining just what the actual operating conditions are. They can't possibly express on something so simple as a single chart what the engine might actally be enduring as far as load and ambient temperature.

We think of ambient temperature as what the weather for that day gives us. The ambient temperature for a truck-mount engine often has little relation to that, and is usually quite a bit higher, and different for each engine application, whether it be in a certain type of enclosure, and just what are the characteristics of its ability to keep as cool as possible.

That's where the expertise of the truck-mount manufactures recommendations really come into play. The truck-mount manufacturer has a much better idea of what the ambient temp and operating loads of an engine are going to be, rather than relying on weather conditions and the engine chart.

Bottom line:
Unless the truck-mount manufacturer's recommendations categorically contradict any of the engine manufacturer chart recommendations, I should think you would pay deference to the TM manufacture guidelines. They are likely to know more about the ambient conditions for that engine, and what oil choice is best. Chances are high, if the TM Manufacturer is reputable that they already cleared the recommendation with the engine manufacturer.

 

[Goomer]

Bottom line:
Unless the truck-mount manufacturer's recommendations categorically contradict any of the engine manufacturer chart recommendations, I should think you would pay deference to the TM manufacture guidelines. They are likely to know more about the ambient conditions for that engine, and what oil choice is best. Chances are high, if the TM Manufacturer is reputable that they already cleared the recommendation with the engine manufacturer.

Interesting........ I thought it would have been the other way around.
Thanks Shawn.

 

[Shawn Forsythe]

I think maybe my post was misunderstood.

The TM manufacturer is going to use the information supplied by the engine manufacturer and the choices presented. The TM manufacturer will then judge which ambient condition fits best (using test data for which the design and application presents), and then choose based on what the engine manufacturer recommends for the ambient condition that users may not know, as they might tend to use less relevant weather data as an incorrect ambient reading.

Does that make it more clear? Or have I made it worse. LOL

The TM manufacturer is best suited to choose which of the engine manufacturers recommendations apply for that unit.

 

[everfresh1]

If it is a air cooled engine Use 10W30 in the cold weather and 30w in the warmer weather above 40 degrees. if its a liquid cooled engine use the 10W30. Air cooled engines run hotter in the summer so I use the 30W. Liquid cooled engines stay a constant temp so you don't have to use the thicker oil.

 

[Shawn Forsythe]

If it is a air cooled engine Use 10W30 in the cold weather and 30w in the warmer weather above 40 degrees. if its a liquid cooled engine use the 10W30. Air cooled engines run hotter in the summer so I use the 30W. Liquid cooled engines stay a constant temp so you don't have to use the thicker oil.

This illustrates my point. Or I should say it illustrates the misconception I am trying to explain. A truckmount is not a device that we are going to place so much emphasis on outside temperatures. This is because the confined space of a van is going to be more like "summer", no matter what the outside temperature is, because it is going to heat up so fast, and stay warm in the enclosed ambient temp of the cleaning van. Therefore the very reason the TM manufacturer specified the "summer" oil type, and why you should be using it.

This is why the TM manufacturer's recommendation is probably the best. Jamie (Everfresh) would be correct IF, if the TM were operating in an open trailer.


This is also the reason why on the Vortex machines we choose a blower oil viscosity much higher than we think we'd use in the ambient temps outside the truck. It is because the blower sits in it's own hot environment for most of its operation regardless of the outside weather.

 

[GeneMiller]

Shawn, great answer. Thanks

gene

 

[Leslie Judson Jones]

My Tm manufacturer says to use HD-30 oil.. My Honda engine owners manual says 10-w30..


Whats the difference? And what should I really use?

Joey,

Sorry that it took me so long to reply. Joyce and I are entertaining 2 VIP's for the next week.

To answer your question about the oil, use whatever the engine mfg. recommends. This way there will be no problem if there is a warranty issue.

The most important thing about oil, is to never change brands once you start. Different brands of oil operate at different temperatures. Otherwords, if you use one brand and the engine breaks into that temperature then you start using a different brand which is a different temperature, this means that the engine did not expand the same while operating. Then the engine has to rewear to the new stress points from not expanding the same.

This may be getting too nick picky about it, but if you want your engine to last as long as it can this will make a difference.

 

[Goomer]

The most important thing about oil, is to never change brands once you start. Different brands of oil operate at different temperatures.

The "oil" operates at different temps?
Doesn't the "engine" operate at a certain temp, which then determines what temp the "oil would be operating at?
How much temperature variance can there be with 2 different brands? I would think engine controls, ambient conditions, and engine load would be the regulating factors of temperature more than the oil brand.
Are you saying he should use 10w30?
I thought we were all leaning towards a straight 30.

 

[Goomer]

Damn I want to raise the BS flag on a certain post in this thread..........

Hmmm...... Which one can it be???????

 

[Goomer]

Damn I want to raise the BS flag on a certain post in this thread.............but I won't.

You lasted a whole 19 minutes.

 

[Goomer]

Still have lots of equipment to buy before my setup is complete, including my wand. Should be finished this month. Got that quick connect ready and waiting.
How you likin' that Bentley?

 

[Goomer]

Thanks, but I'll pass on that beauty
You may want to keep it around for that day when that gosh darn manifold takes a shit.
I was seriously considering the swivel model, but I can't bring my self to drop coin on it until Mytee comes up with a better solution other than that "Joe the plumber" contraption.

 

[Goomer]

Wow, out of all the posts in this thread, that one ALMOST takes the cake for most bullshit in a post.
:wink:

 

[rotovacguy]

The most important thing about oil, is to never change brands once you start. Different brands of oil operate at different temperatures.

The "oil" operates at different temps?
Doesn't the "engine" operate at a certain temp, which then determines what temp the "oil would be operating at?
How much temperature variance can there be with 2 different brands? I would think engine controls, ambient conditions, and engine load would be the regulating factors of temperature more than the oil brand.
Are you saying he should use 10w30?
I thought we were all leaning towards a straight 30.

Frank,


I only use Mobil 1 synthetic in my suv, lawnmowers, snowblower, etc.. I run the 0w-40 year round in the suv (0w-30 in the others) for it's flow characteristics, and with how unpredictable the temps here in Wisconsin can be, the weight fluctuation is great, too. The 0 weight is like water at start up is essential on those cold winter mornings where here where I live can get below zero easily. Heck, even in the summer, what's wrong with that?? And the 40 weight is great for really "sticking" to the parts when the oil gets up to operating temp and the parts are hot, especially in summer. The owners manual for my Explorer says to run a 20 weight for fuel savings, but let's be real here. I have 4 wheel drive, a V8, routinely pull a trailer and have a gross vehicle weight far beyond that of what any economy car is. I'll take one less MPG for piece of mind! Even with a synthetic, I won't put a 20 weight in there!! :roll:


I need to dig up some of the studies that were done by several magazines I subscribe to. One was for motorcycles (Sport Rider magazine), the other for cars (can't remember which one).

Anyway, you'd be astonished at the difference in the results from one brand to another, even if the weights are comparable. They kept the weights as close as they could, and even tested the ingredients of each, engine wear, operating temps, etc. The study got down to the nitty gritty, with specialized laboratories doing the study, even took like 3 separate issues of the magazine (which was bi-monthly) to complete the testing. Among the many differences was the operating temp. The variance from one brand to another was very high! And that was among the synthetics....the fossil oils were a complete joke!

All I can say is that after the many numerous tests done, and from all the things I've read, and my own personal experiences, fossil oils CAN'T compare to a quality synthetic oil!!

 

[Goomer]

Synthetics are great, they rely on quality base stocks to achieve their multiweight ratings as opposed to viscosity improvers. They hold up great to heat. Mobil one is great stuff, agreed. All synthetics give you a added benefit.
But Les' statement is specific. I see too many other variables regarding engine temp to claim that oil brand would effect temp. Wear, yes, but not temp.
In those vehicles that you say showed lower temps, what happened to the cooling system, thermostat, and fan, did the oil effect them?

 

[joeynbgky]

Well, shit I have been using all different brands of oil, mostly valvoline.. There is only one place that sells HD-30 oil here and its Kmart. No auto parts stores or anything....... SO I should start using the HD-30 oil right?

 

[everfresh1]

Well, shit I have been using all different brands of oil, mostly valvoline.. There is only one place that sells HD-30 oil here and its Kmart. No auto parts stores or anything....... SO I should start using the HD-30 oil right?

I Stand by my previous stament. :mrgreen:

 

[Goomer]

Another vote for 30WT.

 

[Ron Werner]

from what I've heard, most wear occurs at start up, till the oil gets circulating having the 10w30 just gets the oil moving faster.
Used it in car engines for years, can't be all that bad. Cars are running at 2500-3000 rpm on freeways for hours on end.

 

[dgardner]

My Honda engine owners manual says 10-w30..

Joey, your TCS chief has a Honda GX690, right? The manual I downloaded from Honda for the GX690 seems to allow several different choices depending on ambient temp (typical for most small engines):

Your manual doesn't have this table? Curious.

 

[joeynbgky]

My honda owners manual does have this............. So I have been using 10-w30 like it says... But like I said my TM manual says HD-30, because of the heat I suppose.

 

[dgardner]

Oops, I must be dyslexic. I read your post exactly backwards. Carry on!

 

[Ron Werner]

run 10w30 in the cold months for that extra lube at start up, and straight 30 in summer when its much warmer. In colder months you're going to get better cooling, in summer, the air doing the cooling is already hot.